A mixture of watching Northern Exposure and watching parts of the Matrix trilogy have led me to this question. What is fate? Is there such a thing? Have we been predestined to do things or are things completely random? Either way, how much control do we have over the forces in our world?
I don't actually know if fate exists? I want to believe that every decision I make is new and unexpected, perhaps many of them are predictable, but I could change them at any more. Bottom line - I have free will.
This is where I probably break with my Catholicism in a bad way. I so strongly believe that I have control over my situation that I'm doubtful whether an overarching force like God even controls the situations around me. I find prayer useless in quite of few situations and I am very cynical of people who pray for things to change in their lives. Am I wrong in this? Is my cynicism getting me in trouble?
Either way a predestined fate nor complete free will can be changed by prayer. Prayer would only work in that way if God could somehow change our surroundings including us. How weird? But is it? Perhaps God actually does change us from time to time. Does God connect with us? It seems preposterous to me on the one hand and scary on the other.
There is this element of fate that is common in our society where we tell people to "find who they are." What does that mean? That means that I already have an essence that I am shaping. That essence was crafted by something. Does this infer a greater being? If I have not been fated to do anything then I am randomly choosing something that feels comfortable. That sounds more likely to me, but I rather like the first idea. It came up in another Northern Exposure episode where the characters were out of character, but by the end of the episode they all returned to their former selves. The entire episode though they were trying to figure out who they are and showing signs of their former selves. It made me feel comforted to believe that there is something that I am working toward instead of forming something out of nothing.
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5 comments:
Joe, great ideas here.
Here's what I've been thinking:
Predetermined destiny? No way.
God interfering in lives: very doubtful
Value of prayer: emotional support only--I think-- but there is definitely the potential for there to be some sort of "help" in getting through things--but I'm not sure.
Fate: "Finding out who you are" is close, I'll try and sort it out here:
This "who we are" is our bodies and specifically our personality. You can't change your DNA, and although people do change, I think most of people's personality is developed by the time they are 5-7 years old. I've spent a large part of my life trying to overcome traits from that period--specifically being very shy, which has been a part of me from the first time I met other children in preschool. I've overcome it to the point where I don't think about it anymore, but throw me in a room full of strangers and the instincts come right back--I can do it now--but mostly because I've trained myself in how to act in new situations.
People just naturally have things that they are good at and things that they struggle at--and although environment matters, DNA probably matters more. People will their lives fighting off random phobias picked up as a child or overcoming a difficult parental situation. But others have similar experiences and overcome them relatively easy. For me, everytime I do something embarassing, I know that I will have to mentally fight off the regret over the situation--and it took years to train myself to get to the point where I didn't worry about it.
So, obviously I'm struggling with this concept too. But I suspect that our "fate" is essentially predestined based on our personality. Personality is the basis for every decision we make in life.
There is sort of a predetermined path than--like if a Kindergarten teacher was forced to pick out which of his/her students would grow up to be doctors/lawyers/pizza delivery guys/criminals, chances are, the guesses would be fairly accurate. Maybe that's kind of harsh, but don't tell me you didn't know by sixth grade which kids were destined for greatness and which were probably headed for drug dealing...
So, if you want to change this "destiny", you have to change yourself. I was sick of being shy, so I decided to change it, it's taken years, but I still (and will probably always) show signs of my original self. So yeah, like you say Joe, it's sort of a random feeling of what's comfortable. But we have the power to change what is comfortable, at least to an extent.
So that's what I'm thinking right now.
I like what both of you have been saying and like your summary, Joe, of predetermined destiny / divine intervention / prayer. I always had the image of someone kneeling at their bed, praying before they go to sleep and in that sense I think it brings those thoughts to the front of your mind and then you're more likely to dream about them or have your mind sort through them while you sleep. In that sense it's just kind of summarizing to yourself what you'd like to change or need to work on and then hopefully you'd get up the next day and make a little progress towards that goal. Not sure if there's any scientific merit to that, but it makes sense to me.
I think the who we are / finding yourself really comes down to your environment and kind of the nature vs nurture debate. Psychologically, the foundations for most things are set at a really young age, and although it might be highly unlikely to become a completely different person (drug dealer to police officer for example) it's always possible.
I hate markets (where there's tons of people with small stands selling mostly junk) because I don't want to barter for a price or be in the over-crowded area constantly being pushed and in threat of getting pick-pocketed if you let your guard down. I know there's people that love them and they're kind of big here but huge in most of the recent of the world. That's something that I think is a byproduct of our culture and malls but I know I could change if I wanted to and forced myself to go on a regular basis. Perhaps I wouldn't enjoy them but I could learn how to be comfortable there and find the good deals and do my shopping there.
When people go "find themselves" you could expect everyone to find the same thing because after all, aren't we all human? I would say it refers to reflecting on your past and figuring out some of the things you like and don't like. I discovered that one of my pet peeves is when two people each have one handle of a duffle bag that could easily be carried by one (if you see it you'll know what I'm talking about).
Similar to what Joe said about fate, I would compare it to where your personality and genes lead you in life - your instinct perhaps.
I'm liking this forum. So what I am hearing is that our genes set us on a path and our environment helps shape that (more as a youth and less as an adult). So we really form our core in the early years and then try to sort out what that core is. Now I have a monkey wrench to throw into this function we've created. Could there perhaps be such a thing as a transcendental interference? I've always been an advocate of this idea that perhaps some ideas might be transcended upon us by a greater being. I know I'm rather strecthing transcentalism and more leaking into Christianity, but somehow I still feel that there is something greater than ourselves out there and he at times likes to transmit information to the Earth through people. I honestly don't know how to explain Mozart, Einstein, Da Vinci. While these men were very reflective there knowledge was unprecedented to the point where it makes you wonder whether it was entirely their own. I know I'll probably get some counters to this, but I rather welcome it.
I don't believe in fate. Fate implies two things: that there is a being who has created an unalterable plan for the universe and that you have no free will. Why create something if you already know exactly what is going to happen? As for free will, I believe in more of a free won't but it kind of comes to the same thing: with fate you have no control over your life. Fate is not consistent with what we know of physics. Like schrodinger's cat, it is not possible to know the outcome of a random action without actually performing it.
Nothing fails like prayer. The universe is governed by natural laws that do not allow for the possibility of intervention. If prayer actually worked and God was real then we would have a pretty messed up deity. First, if God is omniscient then you shouldn't have to ask for anything anyway. Second, why answer the prayers of some and not others who are equally deserving?
As for your essence it is shaped by three things: nature, nurture, and free will. One of those elements you have control over and this is what allows you to shape yourself.
The idea that God seeds people with information is insulting to human reason. People like Einstein are remarkable but their contributions are their own. They put blood and sweat and couragous mental effort into developing their ideas. You wouldn't say that god built a house after watching a construction crew work for months to put it up. Don't say that people don't produce their own ideas just because you can't see into their minds as they work. Besides if god planted ideas in the minds of people why wouldn't god have told us about bacteria and proper hygeine before the black death? Why not let someone know that there was going to be a tsunami in the Indain Ocean?
For the people who made amazing contributions to society, I think it might be necessary to ask them. If they believe that God played a role in their contributions, then perhaps it did. Of course the contributions are their own, but that doesn't mean there wasn't some sort of spiritual moment that inspired it.
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